Bloodborne #HG | Welcome home, good hunter

Entrevista de 4Gamer a mofletitos

It Was Never Demon’s Souls 2

4G - Thanks for your time today. I’d like to start by asking how Bloodborne became a completely new title instead of being simply Demon’s Souls 2? Since it’s another collaboration between SCE and From Software, and you are the director again, it just seems natural that the project would be a sequel to Demon’s Souls.

M - This project actually started out with the proposal to make something new on new hardware.

4G - It was SCE that came to you with that proposal?

M - Yes. I think it was around the time that development for Artorias of the Abyss Edition of Dark Souls settled down, and it was still before the initial PS4 announcement, but the idea of working on new hardware was very appealing to us, so we eagerly agreed.

4G - So the whole thing never even started as Demon’s Souls 2. That definitely sounds like SCE, even if it’s a little crazy.

M - Yes. Those of us actually working on the game never even considered making it Demon’s Souls 2. Even looking at it objectively, it does seem like a very SCE-like decision.

4G - How about yourself? Were you interested only in creating something new?

M - That’s a difficult question and I can’t really say for certain. Working on an all new game is definitely appealing, but on the other hand—and I felt this way while working on Artorias of the Abyss Edition—but there is a unique kind of fun when you’re working on a sequel. You can make lots of straightforward additions to what you’ve already built, and there are a lot of things you can take for granted, allowing you to really expand on the scope of the game.

Partially because development on Artorias of the Abyss Edition and Dark Souls II was going on simultaneously, I was kind of removed from the development of Dark Souls II and then I began work on Bloodborne. As it turns out, I’m having a ton of fun working on it, too.

4G - One thing that’s always seemed strange to me is that you removed yourself from the development of Dark Souls II. How did that happen? I assume that since Dark Souls was so successful, a decision was made to develop a sequel. Not only that, but the sequel would be a big title that could ultimately decide the fate of the company and yet you decided to put someone else in charge of the project. That seems like a pretty crazy business decision for the company to make.

M - I understand what you’re saying.

I’m not in a position to say what kind of decision the company made at the time, but my personal thought on that matter was that the Dark Souls II project could be a huge chance for even someone other than myself.

I had already received plenty of chances, and if someone else in the company could take that same chance and make good on it, then From Software could grow as an organization. Also, speaking as a developer—and I’ve already said this in previous interviews—but I also wanted to see what kind of possibilities awaited when the base concept of Dark Souls was unshackled from myself.

The Three Concepts of Bloodborne

4G - I’d like to talk in a bit more detail about what kind of game Bloodborne is.

M - The format of the game is very close to Demon’s Souls. It’s in the action RPG genre and it features a behind-the-back camera. From there, however—the setting, story, various gameplay elements, etcetera—will go in their own direction for this game.

4G - So the concept of being a challenging action RPG for gamers remains unchanged?

M - Definitely. That concept won’t change.

From the very beginning of this project, the whole premise was to make a serious game for people who like games. On top of that premise, we have a multiple themes throughout the various layers of the game, but three big ones would be “exploring the unknown,” “the feeling of fighting for one’s life,” and “new online elements.”

4G - Those are some intriguing keywords. Would you mind explaining each of them?

M - First, in regards to “exploring the unknown,” we wanted to make it fun to explore the environments, but we’re not limiting it to just that. We’re using the phrase to apply to a broader range of concepts. For example, it applies to both the setting and story, too. We want to create a mysterious space for the players to explore.

4G - Speaking of which, the setting of this game isn’t all “swords and sorcery,” and appears to be a bit more modern.

M - That’s correct. The concept for the general feeling of the era is very much based on the Victorian era. However, the first thing most people think of when they hear “Victorian era,” is probably London. The setting for this game is not based off London, but more on the remote towns that may have existed in the era. Towns that would feel really old and gloomy. The setting we created takes these old gothic towns and layers more Victorian era elements, such as street lamps, on top of them.

4G - Watching the video, the gothic horror atmosphere definitely came across.

M - Yeah. To start off I wanted to convey a similar atmosphere to Bram Stoker’s Dracula. We have this old city in an outlying region, and it was a town long known for its medical community, but now there’s a disease spreading called the “plague of the beast—“that kind of setting.

4G - What made you want to go with that kind of setting?

M - I have a few reasons, but first and foremost, the setting really matched the new gameplay I had in mind.

4G - What kind of new gameplay?

M - That ties in to the second theme I mentioned—“the feeling of fighting for one’s life.” In Demon’s Souls, the battle system was really defined by swords and shields, particularly shields, and it ended up feeling a bit passive.

4G - Yes, I remember hearing that you wanted to recreate the feeling of sword fighting that was in the movie Excalibur—that sense of deflecting the opponent’s attack with your shield, and using that opening to counter attack.

M - That’s right. With Demon’s Souls, we had that more passive feeling in mind when creating the battle system, but with this game, we want to make it more active—make it more of something where you’re fighting your way out of a dangerous situation.

4G - Taking the angle of active vs. passive definitely seems interesting.

M - When I thought about how we could express this idea of more active battles in the game, I thought that guns could be effective. However, I didn’t want to turn the game into a shooter. I wanted the guns to show their true usefulness in close quarters combat. That’s why an era in which guns existed, but they are still more like old-timey guns really worked for this game.

At the same time, the elaborate designs of the Gothic and Victorian eras, and the images and atmosphere that can be created by layering those designs on top of each other, are things that we can now make a reality with the power of the PS4, and that kind of direction is something we really wanted to pursue. So it’s from both a gameplay and visual standpoint that brought us to this setting.

4G - So, with this more active direction you’re taking with the gameplay, does that mean we can expect to quickly dispatch tons of enemies as we make our way through the game?

M - No, that’s not what I meant.

One of the other themes is “the feeling of fighting for one’s life,” so I definitely think the feeling of the gameplay and the challenge that people have come to expect from us will remain intact.

4G - I see. That puts some of my fears to rest.

M - Going back to the theme of “exploring the unknown,” we want to apply that concept to the various gameplay elements, too. The tactical aspect of having more active battles is part of that, but we also want to include a variety of unknown elements in the other facets of gameplay, such as character builds and the routes and strategies that players take through the game. We want players to enjoy groping their way through the game and exploring.

One example I can use to explain what I mean would be the weapon contraptions that, in addition to the gun, kind of defines the weapons of Bloodborne. In the E3 version of the CG movie, we showed the saw machete weapon. This weapon has a very unique shape and it can also transform. Its abilities also change depending on which transformation it is in.

How you use these different transformations becomes part of the gameplay, and there are even unique attacks with their own traits that can be performed only while the weapon is mid-transformation. I think players will find a lot of room for exploration when it comes to mastering the different weapons

4G - Interesting. I can’t wait to see more.

New Experiences Brought by Fighting for Your Life

4G - Could you talk a little more about the second concept, “the feeling of fighting for one’s life?”

M - That concept is applied both to the presentation of the game and the game’s systems.

On the presentation side, we want players to fear the enemies and feel like they are fighting for their lives, so we are putting a lot of effort into the expressions and interactions in the game to accomplish this. A very straightforward example would be blood splatters.
　
However, the goal isn’t to simply be grotesque or to make people feel revolted. We want the players to feel scared of the enemies and for the combat to feel deadly. That way, when they emerge victorious, there’s a very strong sense of joy, or relief. We want players to feel like, “That was crazy! I can’t believe I won…”

4G - Interesting.

M - With Demon’s Souls and Dark Souls, we always wanted players to feel a sense of accomplishment. That’s the only reason we went with a higher difficulty.

4G - That makes sense.

M - And in this game, too, we want players to feel that sense of accomplishment. In order to make that feeling even stronger than before, we needed another pillar other than just a high difficulty.

To allow for players to feel that sense of accomplishment, the difficulty must be set at a level that players can overcome. Difficulty isn’t something that you can just endlessly raise.

4G - No matter the game or genre, getting that balance right is always a difficult problem.

M - Indeed. So, our way of thinking is that we have the high difficulty on one side, but on the other side we have this feeling of fighting for your life to help bring about that sense of accomplishment. You encounter an enemy and know it’s going to be a tough battle. You start fighting and your hands get sweaty, and you feel like you barely scraped through by the end of the encounter. We knew we wanted elements to make players feel that way other than just numerical difficulty settings.

4G - That makes a lot of sense. What are some of the actual systems in the game that you used to express that feeling?

M - The more active battles I just explained are one part of that. We’re also thinking of certain elements that entice players into engaging in these deadly battles. Unfortunately, I can’t talk in detail about this right now.

4G - This applies to Demon’s Souls as well, but I’m always impressed with how you can take certain themes and concepts and really express them within the game by implementing them into the game systems. I’m really excited to see how this “feeling of fighting for one’s life” concept is expressed in the final game.

M - Yeah. We hope to effectively convey that feeling both from the presentation side of things and the game systems.

Approaching Network Systems from a Social Science Perspective

M - The third concept I mentioned, “new online elements,” is something I can’t talk in detail about right now. The key phrase would be “free sharing of exploration,” but I can’t say any more about it, so please wait for future announcements.

4G - New online elements, you say?

M - Yes. Just like with Demon’s Souls, we want to do something cool with the network features.

4G - I wondered this when I first interviewed you about Demon’s Souls, but do you come up with these new network features all by yourself?

M - Yeah. I mean, I like to bounce ideas off trusted members of the team, and I get a low of new ideas by doing that, but when you’re first thinking of network features, it can be very conceptual and abstract, so I spend a lot of time, comparatively, thinking of them by myself. This may apply to all aspects of my games, but especially with the network features, it can be very hard to get other people to understand my ideas (laughs).

4G - Interesting… So, do you have a pretty deep knowledge of how network services are designed?

M - No, not really.

4G - But you always come up with features that really use the network features in a good way. In Demon’s Souls, you had the bloodstain system that showed how other players died, and the more seamless cooperative and PvP gameplay. Those types of systems have become more commonplace now, but when Demon’s souls came out, and especially when you were still in the planning stages, I don’t think most people would have been able to come up with those ideas.

M - You’re definitely right that it was hard for people to understand at the time. I have a lot of bitter memories from that time.

4G - The online multiplayer systems and features of the day tended to come from a much simpler way of thought—like, “this would be much more fun if we could play together!”—but that’s where a lot of those ideas seemed to stop. A lot of games didn’t seem to fully take into account the merits and demerits of those systems.

But you, on the other hand, even a long time ago would say that “playing together is fun, but playing together at the same time can be a pain.” I remember you saying, “There has to be more possibilities with asynchronous mutliplayer gameplay.” Those words left a strong impression on me.

M - Yeah, I remember saying that.

I’m the same way now, but at the time—and this may sound a bit pretentious—I was thinking about network systems in video games from more of a social sciences standpoint.

4G - Social sciences?

M - Yes. When I was in university and later graduate school, I was interested in studying social sciences on the side. At the time, the Internet had really just entered the world. Looking back, it was a very interesting era—a time that really made me think about a lot of things. Of course, I was always playing video games and wasn’t a very serious student, so I don’t mean to say I’m some kind of expert, but I think I was influenced in a way.

4G - Interesting. So that formed the backbone for your later work.

M - Nothing so grandiose as that. I just had academic leanings in that direction. I think a lot of people from my generation will know what I’m talking about.

4G - Hmmm…

M - I find network systems to be very interesting, both in general and when applied to games. Whether it’s an experience in a game or some kind of value, it can be expanded across a multitude of layers. This may sound a bit dramatic, but I feel that I’m very lucky to be able to create games in an era like this.

4G - Well, I don’t know what kind of network systems we’ll find in Bloodborne, but in terms of it being a new challenge for you, you certainly have me excited.

Creating Something Special

4G - Another question I had was if the teams working on Bloodborne and Dark Souls II are completely different or not.

M - They are totally separate teams.

At From Software, we have the development resources to work on two so-called “high-end” games simultaneously. Bloodborne is one of those titles, and we’ve been working on it in parallel with Dark Souls II.

4G - In terms of games being developed domestically in Japan, I feel that Bloodborne is definitely one of the bigger projects. At the same time, people are always talking about how Japan has a tough time competing head-on with the so-called triple-A game studios overseas, and that Japanese developers have to approach things from a slightly different angle. Are you conscious of that at all when developing games?

M - That’s a tricky topic.

Speaking strictly about Bloodborne, the project has become quite large, but at the same time, I think that our particular style is still very much intact.

It’s not so much a conscious decision that we keep our unique style intact, but more that it just happens naturally. Either way, the result is that we probably do end up approaching things somewhat differently.

4G - When you say it naturally ends up that way, is that because the development team structure ultimately has you making the decisions?

M - That’s not necessarily always the reason, but it may be one.

When it comes to game design, our style is to not have a “lead designer,” but instead have the director work directly with the individual designers.

That, of course, has both a good and bad side. The good side is that you don’t lose sight of what you set out to make, and it’s easier to make your unique style shine through, but on the other hand, there are physical limitations. For as much as the structure allows you to you really stay on target, it’s also easy to become immobilized.

4G - It also heavily depends on who is the director.

M - That’s right. In the end, you have to find the right team structure for the people creating the game. For example, we adopted different styles for Bloodborne and Dark Souls II.

However, regardless of all that, for us at From Software, the base premise is always to make a good game--we all want to make something special. We’re always conscious of that.

You can call that our unique style, or being “From-like,” but whatever it is, it comes down to being something special. I don’t intend to define what “something special” means, but I think it’s something that has value, and I want From Software to continue being a company that has it.

Staying Involved in Game Development

4G - There’s another thing that’s been on my mind that I’d like to ask you about. Recently, it was announced that you would be taking on the position of president at From Software.

M - Yes, that’s correct…

4G - So I think there’s a bit of concern, or should I say "worry," among fans about just how much you can be involved in the day-to-day development while also serving as the president of the company. You are definitely the director on Bloodborne, right? Not a producer or anything?

M - Yes. On Bloodborne, I am 100% the director.

4G - Oh, that sure is a relief! But are you able to keep up your presidential duties at the same time?

M - Yeah, I’m getting by. I learned a lot from developing Dark Souls, so I have another person at the director level supporting me on this project, and I’m finding a way to make things work.

Since this interview is about Bloodborne, I’d rather not talk too much about my role as president of From Software, but simply put, one of my conditions for taking on the role of president was that I would be able to remain involved in the day-to-day game development.

4G - Conditions?

M - Yes. It might not have been the best idea to set conditions when they were offering me the position of president, but my personal goal has always been to create games.

4G - I think I understand how you feel.

M - The previous president, Jin, was really understanding in this regard. Anyway, I am definitely the director of Bloodborne, and my becoming president will not lessen my involvement in any way.

4G - This is a bit of a tangent, but your first project to work as a director was Armored Core 4, right?

M - That’s right. I started as the lead planner on the project, but became the director mid-way through the prototype phase. As the lead planner, I was in charge of the setting, story, design, and the game systems. One of the more distinctive features I worked on was the Quick Boost mechanic.

4G - Oh, really? I remember feeling that Armored Core 4 and the sequel Armored Core for Answer felt even more video gamey than previous Armored Core titles, so I guess that was due to your involvement.

M - But with Armored Core for Answer, we were working on that in parallel with Demon’s Souls, so there were quite a few challenges. When Demon’s Souls was in the initial planning stages, and right around the time it was entering the prototype phase, I came on as the director, and at the time, it was a completely different and very difficult project compared to what it ended up becoming.

4G - Is that so?

M - Yes. One thing I remember was that the camera perspective was completely different.

At the time, the plan was to make it first-person, or more specifically, a game in which you switched between first and third-person perspectives.

4G - Wow, really?

M - Yeah. At the time, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was a really big deal, and I think SCE wanted a game similar to that.

From my perspective, though, I didn’t think we could compete by taking the same approach as Oblivion, so I wanted to focus more on gameplay elements like battles and exploration, and had to do a lot to convince everyone that a third-person camera was the way to go.

4G - What did you say to convince them?

M - I started by explaining the direction of the game. I just mentioned the focus on battles and exploration, and in order to facilitate those, I knew that a locked third-person camera was the best way to go, so I explained my logic.

Whether you take the environment layout, the object and enemy placement, or the back-and-forth action in battle, I knew we couldn’t do our best work unless the camera perspective was set. Even talking about the multiplayer elements and other facets of gameplay, I believed a third-person perspective was best. I said a lot of stuff like that, and whatever came to mind to convince them (laughs).

Making It Exciting

4G - I think we’re running out of time, but is there anything you’d like to say to our readers and your fans?

M - Sure. To kind of summarize what we’ve talked about, I’d like to say that Bloodborne is a game that’s been full of challenges for us—it’s an all-new game that we’re developing on new hardware.

However, the underlying philosophy of the game is the same as the projects we’ve worked on up until now—we want to make games with satisfying gameplay that are fun for people who like games, for example.

4G - Being able to talk to you today, and seeing the game in motion has really put some of my fears to rest.

M - I can only hope that fans will also rest at ease, but at the same time get excited for all of the new stuff we have in the game.

4G - I feel like there aren’t a lot of games these days that people can get excited about just from reading about them, but I think people might be quite excited for this game!

M - If that’s true, I couldn’t be happier. As a gamer myself, I love getting excited for games.

4G - Just to be completely sure, allow me to ask one final time, but your becoming president of From Software won’t have any negative effect on Bloodborne, right?

M - Definitely not. Even when Jin was in charge, From Software was never a company where the president couldn’t be involved in game development.

4G - So I guess the roles of president and game director aren’t entirely conflicting then. Perhaps that’s especially true at From Software.

M - That’s right. Of course, there are duties I need to take care of as president, but everything comes back to making a good product and a good game. If that’s the case, then of course it’s also a good thing for me as a game creator.

4G - Is that the case?

M - It sure hope so (laughs)!

Anyway, although the release is still a ways out, I hope everyone will look forward to Bloodborne. Thanks for your time today.

4G - Thank you!

No hablan en exceso del juego, welp pero es interesante saber cómo ha ascendido a presidente, sus condiciones y saber que no va a influir en el desarrollo del juego... Ah! y que Demon's Souls podría haber sido en primera persona con cambios en tercera D:

Concept que se mostraba en famitsu ahora a resolución megachachi

Ya tenéis nuevo fondo de escritorio, 11/10

Oh, la skyrum audience!